Hoodoo group (Conjure@) archive 1.

Albert Great wrote:

>>"That is how Pow Wows which is German became part of hoodoo"
>>
>>
>>Perhaps your thoughts are more clear to you the thinker of them than they are to
>>those you communicate them to in writing.
>>Where did they get the word? as for calling it "stealing" or any other form of
>>appropriation look to the context of this entire thread.
>>
>>
>--
>
>
>>JL
>>
>>
>
>Joseph,
>
>I have been on this forum for a while, but don't contribute overly much. Every
>once in a while, I'll post, but I read the threads quite�a bit. I've noticed
>that you tend to dissect and cut apart posts and people's statements for your
>own clarification, but in the process tend to confuse the matter a bit for the
>rest of us. You usually follow this up with rather lengthy posts that ramble on
>for a bit. I don't mean to be insulting and I do find what you have to say both
>insightful and interesting, but it'd be nice if you didn't dissect posts in such
>a manner. It simply leads to all sorts of confusion.
>
>

Personal preference, i prefer limiting what i quote of another persons
posts to that which i am directly replying to.

>For example, when I read your response to Mike I was thoroughly confused--where
>did Mike make any of the claims you implied he did when you decided to post that
>rather long bit about the word "pow wow?" It wasn't until this post that once
>again you seemed to have miscontrued something and then�it went somewhere
>entirely elsewhere.
>
>Maybe, I am just a tad dense, or maybe you are completely missing what is being
>said. Mike was talking about respect and being open. He mentioned that the
>German Pow Wow became part of Hoodoo because of this. Pow Wow refers to the
>shortened or popular name of a text known as the Long Lost Friend. This
>text�details a series of German folk practices employed by the Pennsylvania
>Dutch. He never claimed it was Native American, nor did he claim the word was
>German, in fact he made no reference to etymology at all. All he did was to
>point out that sometimes certain practices are adopted by practictioners of a
>different tradition.
>
>


You should read the previous posts in reference to people taking things
from one tradition and grafting them on to another. Changing aspects of
one tradition for their own purposes does not mean they are changing the
entire tradition & culture they are taking it from.

Some people here resent this when it directly impinges on aspects they
consider as belonging solely to hoodoo and are then applied in ways they
do not approve of.

But its a two way street, hoodoo is not free from adopting the practices
of many traditions besides the christian. For that matter neither is
Christianity you just have to go back further in time to see the
borrowings Christianity made or copied from older traditions and that
not limited to the Hebrew traditions.

>
>The practices of the Pennsylvania Dutch made it into hoodoo and while I'm sure
>that some at the time bemoaned the fact that it wasn't hoodoo, the point of the
>post was to indicate (correct me if I am wrong, Mike) that with respect and an
>open mind traditions can learn from another and be informed by one another.
>
>
>Saif.
>
The original subject title of this thread was "hoodoo and christianity"
at some point the "christianity" got edited out of the subject line and
some people coming into the thread late may not understand the origins
of the thread.....Dara started the thread with this statement.

"Friends,
As you all know, over the past few years there has been a strong
popular
interest in Hoodoo by many folks from outside of the culture to which
it belongs. Some of these folks contest and dislike the idea that Hoodoo is
fundamentally and inseparably entwined with Christian beliefs and practices.
Yet it firmly and undeniably is....."

Later on this comment was made.

" the argument keeps coming up because Pagans are trying to justify
cherry picking & changing Hoodoo to suit their beliefs. It's bad
etiquette, it's rude & it's wrong."

From this sprang several observations on sources for hoodoo and even
for christianity. The subject title was altered to ATR's and Hoodoo
and a comment about the offering of whisky to the spirit of the Sauk
Chief Black Hawk was made and i replied that no matter how "traditional"
this may be for hoodoo does not lessen the offensiveness of it to Native
peoples, and then we got caught up in the definition and etymology of
"Pow Wow".
Which, as far as im concerned is a Native american word.

To sum up all this it seems to me hypocritical for a hoodoo'er to
complain about cherry picking, "stealing" or adopting of one traditions
practices by another or even using aspects of one tradition to bolster
or support the invention of a new tradition when it is so obviously
apparent that hoodoo itself is an amalgam of many traditions.

I am as much against the bogus spiritual frauds, hucksters, & etc.
whose only purpose is to separate the gullible from their money as most
people are, but those people aside, this 'syncretism' is a universal
phenomena for people who are exposed to other people, its inevitable and
does not of itself imply any lack of respect or fraud. In many case
quite the opposite.

And when ever i hear these accusations of a lack of respect coming from
one tradition and aimed at another i tend to think the accusers are
either naive or fanatics, possibly both and when it involves the major
religions of the world i suspect a political agenda that has nothing to
do with 'truth' or reason. But is rather the expression of an
irrational fanaticism.

Hebrew, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God and yet look at
the squabbles they have over "Truth" and tradition (even within their
own communities). And this extending beyond the philosophical into the
real politic of the world where people are killed and maimed and
impoverished over assumed insults to "tradition."
--
JL