Saturday, May 14, 2011
Doug Freyburger wrote:
> M. JL Esq. wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I only hear about "Thor" in the last couple of days... apparently it's
>>> a box office hit. Is this a movie based in Mythology?
>>
>>
>> NO! its based on the comic book
>
>
>
> And it's pretty good if you are a comic book fan or used to be. If you
> actually follow Thor, well, it works if you were a comic book fan long
> before you started following Thor.
>
> As to the myths, they are no more changed than Wagner did in his operas.
Welll...youll only get an argument from me cause i like to argue:) and know just enough about both Norse mythology and Wagner to make it amusing for me to do so:)
Plus im waiting on the plumber and have nothing better to do:)
And then, i have not seen the movie, only watched a few interviews with the star, director and Anthony Hopkins. The "Star" Thor explained in the movie and in the interview that the Valhalla of the movie is an scientifically advance extraterrestrial civilization and not some theological "Heaven" where the Great God or Gods Live.
A similar theme has been done a few times with the Olympic Gods and Mount Olympus. From Star Trek to Star Gate. A cinematic or literary fictionalization of Gods & Angels & Demons as ET's & UFO's & etc.
Think Cargo Cult for the modern world, Erik von Daniken lives!!! I suppose its only a matter of time till the Holy Blood and Holly Grail ilk and other assorted "Chalice" mythology is expressed in a Sci Fi format. Its not the Bavarian illuminati its the ET's!
STTNG did one episode like that where an interplanetary criminal lady went around disguising her self with an advanced "holographic" technology and tractor beams and such as the local planetary demon. Very convincingly as a sufficiently scientifically advanced culture impacting a less scientifically advanced culture would. As the Cargo Cults and The conquest of Mexico & South America demonstrate.
For all the liberties Wagner took with the less than unified Norse mythology, the worst was done before him, the Christian element alone is considered by some analysts of his operas to be indicative of more primitive myths surviving by adopting the conquering religions names for the major characters. The Grail and the Knights of the grail are seen by some to be, originally pre christian heroic tales. The names were changed to protect the tellers of them.
And with much time and elaboration came to symbolize an ideal of a struggle between good and evil as seen through the ideology of "Jesus" and his tribes rather than Odin and his. Some people thought (think?) that Wagners operas were TOO Pagan and un christian to be shown to a Christian audience. And of course the associations of them with that particular political party in Germany in the 1930's - 1940's is unfortunate.
What development or stage of norse mythology concerning Odin & his Family and his place of the gods ultimate destiny, was fully formed before it interacted with Christian mythology. That so much of it was adapted to Christian mythology is interesting if for no other reason than to demonstrate the universality of these types of myths.
Many African, traditional religious practices & traditions came to the "new world" with the slaves abducted to it. And those myths also adopted Christian terminology as a disguise for their own stories.
To me the Ancient Egyptian Cosmology is interesting in its real estate or topography:)
In Norse, Greek, Roman, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Muslim, Hebrew myth there is a place where "God" (and/or "Gods) is (or are) and if you are good you get to go there and join them after death. If you are not good there are other places you may or may not go.
However, as i understand Ancient Egyptian Theology, Every body goes to "the land of the dead" where the Ancient Egyptian God Osiris Reigns over the dead. In a sort of neutral and more grey than beige cosmic waiting room, neither good nor bad, neither hot nor cold, neither living nor dead just waiting for your boat of a million years to dock:)
It is the only Feudal "Heaven" i am aware of. All the others are much more egalitarian and democratic if you live well enough to merit being there.
In the Egyptian conceit, ones good and evil is measured (like a resume) and if one is found unworthy and 'not good enough' one merely ceases to be (don't get the job). If ones is judged "worthy" if ones good is even merely equal to ones bad one gets a pass, but it makes no difference if ones good far out weighs ones bad, even if one were a saint one would just be given a number and told to take a seat.
And then spend an eternity waiting on the Pleasure of Osiris whose feudal slave/property one is applying to be. And if you are just good enough, if your good is merely equal to your bad you get the privilege of being Gods' slave and feudal property. Pharaoh means Great House and in that House Father owns everything and everybody as his personal property to do with as he will, and from which there is no higher authority authority to appeal to.
The Hebrew and Christian Heaven at least offer music lessons:)
Valhalla and Mount Olympus are quite lively places, The Garden of Allah has all those virgins running around, Buddhist Nirvana is at least described as a type of cessation of desire, Amaritsu rules The Divine Land of the Gods, that is even prettier than its physical place of origins in the minds of Japanese mystics. Imagine the entire world as a Japanese Zen Tea Garden.....
And then the plumber knocked on the door....
--
JL
> M. JL Esq. wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I only hear about "Thor" in the last couple of days... apparently it's
>>> a box office hit. Is this a movie based in Mythology?
>>
>>
>> NO! its based on the comic book
>
>
>
> And it's pretty good if you are a comic book fan or used to be. If you
> actually follow Thor, well, it works if you were a comic book fan long
> before you started following Thor.
>
> As to the myths, they are no more changed than Wagner did in his operas.
Welll...youll only get an argument from me cause i like to argue:) and know just enough about both Norse mythology and Wagner to make it amusing for me to do so:)
Plus im waiting on the plumber and have nothing better to do:)
And then, i have not seen the movie, only watched a few interviews with the star, director and Anthony Hopkins. The "Star" Thor explained in the movie and in the interview that the Valhalla of the movie is an scientifically advance extraterrestrial civilization and not some theological "Heaven" where the Great God or Gods Live.
A similar theme has been done a few times with the Olympic Gods and Mount Olympus. From Star Trek to Star Gate. A cinematic or literary fictionalization of Gods & Angels & Demons as ET's & UFO's & etc.
Think Cargo Cult for the modern world, Erik von Daniken lives!!! I suppose its only a matter of time till the Holy Blood and Holly Grail ilk and other assorted "Chalice" mythology is expressed in a Sci Fi format. Its not the Bavarian illuminati its the ET's!
STTNG did one episode like that where an interplanetary criminal lady went around disguising her self with an advanced "holographic" technology and tractor beams and such as the local planetary demon. Very convincingly as a sufficiently scientifically advanced culture impacting a less scientifically advanced culture would. As the Cargo Cults and The conquest of Mexico & South America demonstrate.
For all the liberties Wagner took with the less than unified Norse mythology, the worst was done before him, the Christian element alone is considered by some analysts of his operas to be indicative of more primitive myths surviving by adopting the conquering religions names for the major characters. The Grail and the Knights of the grail are seen by some to be, originally pre christian heroic tales. The names were changed to protect the tellers of them.
And with much time and elaboration came to symbolize an ideal of a struggle between good and evil as seen through the ideology of "Jesus" and his tribes rather than Odin and his. Some people thought (think?) that Wagners operas were TOO Pagan and un christian to be shown to a Christian audience. And of course the associations of them with that particular political party in Germany in the 1930's - 1940's is unfortunate.
What development or stage of norse mythology concerning Odin & his Family and his place of the gods ultimate destiny, was fully formed before it interacted with Christian mythology. That so much of it was adapted to Christian mythology is interesting if for no other reason than to demonstrate the universality of these types of myths.
Many African, traditional religious practices & traditions came to the "new world" with the slaves abducted to it. And those myths also adopted Christian terminology as a disguise for their own stories.
To me the Ancient Egyptian Cosmology is interesting in its real estate or topography:)
In Norse, Greek, Roman, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Muslim, Hebrew myth there is a place where "God" (and/or "Gods) is (or are) and if you are good you get to go there and join them after death. If you are not good there are other places you may or may not go.
However, as i understand Ancient Egyptian Theology, Every body goes to "the land of the dead" where the Ancient Egyptian God Osiris Reigns over the dead. In a sort of neutral and more grey than beige cosmic waiting room, neither good nor bad, neither hot nor cold, neither living nor dead just waiting for your boat of a million years to dock:)
It is the only Feudal "Heaven" i am aware of. All the others are much more egalitarian and democratic if you live well enough to merit being there.
In the Egyptian conceit, ones good and evil is measured (like a resume) and if one is found unworthy and 'not good enough' one merely ceases to be (don't get the job). If ones is judged "worthy" if ones good is even merely equal to ones bad one gets a pass, but it makes no difference if ones good far out weighs ones bad, even if one were a saint one would just be given a number and told to take a seat.
And then spend an eternity waiting on the Pleasure of Osiris whose feudal slave/property one is applying to be. And if you are just good enough, if your good is merely equal to your bad you get the privilege of being Gods' slave and feudal property. Pharaoh means Great House and in that House Father owns everything and everybody as his personal property to do with as he will, and from which there is no higher authority authority to appeal to.
The Hebrew and Christian Heaven at least offer music lessons:)
Valhalla and Mount Olympus are quite lively places, The Garden of Allah has all those virgins running around, Buddhist Nirvana is at least described as a type of cessation of desire, Amaritsu rules The Divine Land of the Gods, that is even prettier than its physical place of origins in the minds of Japanese mystics. Imagine the entire world as a Japanese Zen Tea Garden.....
And then the plumber knocked on the door....
--
JL
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