On 2/13/10, Halima wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> can we find something negative to say about the 10 of Cups ?
>
>
>
> Halima (Moderator)
>
> please visit our sister group
> http://somethingstarot.ning.com/
Thats all most too easy:)
In the system i have cobbled together for myself, over the years,
highly influenced by a personalized verison of Crowley's Thoth deck &
book, the 10's represent endings.
The nines represent fullfillment or "the fullest material
manifestation of the element involved"
In the Waite deck 10's are the type of 'fullfillment' that Crowely
makes his 9's with his 10's being a, technicaly, "reabsortption" or
apotheosis or epiphany of the element in such a way that it
truansumtes back into the Ace.
The 4th court card in their sequence is said to be symbolic of the
fullfillment of a similar function.
In the Thoth deck the 10 of cups is called "Satiety" and can mean the
end of a relationship, or in any way an emotional state or phenomina
that has ran its course, for what ever reason, is over.
This is 'negative' in the human context of the sorrows it often brings
in its wake. But the 10 of cups could represent a decision to end
somethnig one has had enough of and thus be a positive symbol.
Any sort of emotional investment, no mater how ephemeral, and the more
ephemeral any emotional involvment is the eaier it is to choose to end
it, this then is a positive aspect that the 10 of cups can have.
But in romance, love of any sort, or with deep emotional bonds to
anything, the 10 of cups can represent the ending of those bonds,
where one has all one is going to get and one has no choice but to
let go, that even if in denale about it the bond is, technicaly
broken.
Such passings when they are tragic and unexepcted can not be prepared
for and the inevitable reulst is 'negative" feelings of loss as
symbolized b y the 10 of cups. But sometimes the transiton is
expected, anticipated, prepred for and as symbolized by the 10 of
cups, the letting go, peacfully, can be a positive experiance.
And on a more simple level, it can be representative of a passing
emotion, where one is fed up with some one or something and considers
ending the situation. But a feeling that passes and is
recondsidered.
The Aces are really symbolic of the peak experiance, everyting else is
adaptation and subtrfuge, at best an attempt to delay the inevitable:)
--
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky/files/sf_anthem.mp3
Saturday, February 13, 2010
Tuesday, February 2, 2010
On 2/2/10, Halima Spirit wrote:
> Yes, Halima:
>> In the United States, a client who has been the victim of such fraud can
>> go straight to their local District Attorney's office with the information
>> and they will take care of this guy for her.
>> All the Best,
>> C.
>
>
>
> I don't even know if my clients wants to pursue her money back, I think she
> feels a little foolish now for being taken in, but I thought I enquire and
> see if anyone can through some ideas about, next time she visits me I'll
> have a chat with her...I thik she should at least fiel soem kind of
> complaint I was gobsmacked when I heard how much she had paid him !
>
> many thanks
>
> Halima
International, across national borders, follow up's to such a
situation would be difficult, i don't know what sort of laws there are
in the UK about it but in America since the early 1980's the laws that
would have been used to have made selling a "spell" or even "telling
fortunes" illegal has been struck down in the name of "free speech"
constitutionally protected "free speech".
This does not rule out prosecution for our right fraud which is what
it sounds like your friend fell for.
I would urge her to notify the frauds local authorities about him.
Various types of religious and/or spiritual ceremonies, rites,
blessings, rituals, surgical procedures, & etc. have been charged for
by the churches offering them. Not only are one commanded in the
Judeo Christian context to "tithe" but even Kosher butchers charge for
their ritually blessed & slaughtered meats. All of which are legal
and usualy tax exempt.
Why should a neo pagan, wiccan, new ager, hoodooeste, rootworker,
conjurdoc., brujho, shaman etc. not be allowed the same freedom to
offer its services for sale?
For centuries the church state relationship was symbiotic, hand in
glove, and even in those places where such magick rituals as provided
by local shamans are part of a much older tradition that was never
outlawed, even they have corrupt practitioners.
Plus there are many ways of defining what a spell is.
My general rule is that the more expensive a spell (or other
magico-religous ritual) is the less likely i am to appreciate it.
I think one of the telling factors in authenticity of intent and
purpose on the part of the spell caster is its willingness to have the
client actually do the spell. "Give a man a fish and he eats for a
day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself" and don't have to
go looking for a wizard to cast a spell for him evertime he gets
hungry:)
Unfortunately this quickly gets into taboos, as many if not most
people who want spell also do not want to have anything to do with
them, they are titillating themselves with superstitious fascination
with the forbidden and the dark arts and better, in their case they
ARE hung for a lamb instead of a sheep:)
The person that can do anonymous spell work for clients wont advertise
or seek out such clients, and those that do advertise or other wise
seek out clients, publicly advertise cant do the spell the way most
people would want them to and in the way they probly promise they can.
I would not trust a plumber (or anyone else) that guareenteed 100%
satisfaction, why hold the local wizard to an lesser standard?
They can perform a ritual, they can acquire tools and ingredients and
perform all sorts of actions with them because you have paid them to,
some of those making the most money off this sort of gullibility have
the decency to at least have fine print ..... which reads "for
entertainment purposes only" .... most of the frauds don't even bother
with fine print.
I believe i can do 'spells" in several ways, but i cant do them just
because a stranger wants me to.
At least not in a way i could in good consciousness claim to have an
effect, however vicariously, for them. I believe i can teach them how
to perform such spells for themselves in such a way as to have an
effect based on and in their feelings for the situation they want the
spell about, but they must provide the energy & enthusiasm for the
spell i am unable to work up on their behalf.
And even those people who might be interested in the theory and any
lesson plan are usually not really interested in the actual
disciplines involved in 'spell work'.
And there are forms of spontaneous magic and accidental perfection's,
but again, while they can be taught to be recognized, it requires the
doing of it. A commitment to the process, which can take lifetimes:)
One thing is inevitably connected to another and before long your
talking about a whole system of life and living and all the poor
client wanted was a return of a lost love:)
One common hook of the fake shaman is an inexpensive diagnosis, often
time with a very cheap "reading" that finds an expensive problem.
The minute a 5 dollar palm or tarot card reading turns into a thousand
dollar profit ..er..problem, that's when you get up and leave.
The people that do that will not only take your money and give you
nothing but pain and shame in return they are also a type of person
that will involve you as deeply as you will let yourself be involved,
they are not nice people and while they usually kill the goose that
laid the golden egg by ever increasing demands for more and more
money, they are not above using a person for other nefarious schemes
they are also running.
Sometimes to keep a person quite they will let them in on the schemes
to bilk other poor suckers, and some people cant resist the temptation
to get even further involved in such a vicious cycle.
And don't think it is just limited to alternative religion, & new age
fraud's it was the same phenomena that prompted Martin Luther and the
entire Protestant revolution. At one time one could by oneself into
heaven along with ones dead relatives, purchase sainthood and buy the
anathema's of bell, book and candle by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic
Church.
Once can still buy a Mass or hire a moyel to perform the brise:)
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky/files/sf_anthem.mp3
> Yes, Halima:
>> In the United States, a client who has been the victim of such fraud can
>> go straight to their local District Attorney's office with the information
>> and they will take care of this guy for her.
>> All the Best,
>> C.
>
>
>
> I don't even know if my clients wants to pursue her money back, I think she
> feels a little foolish now for being taken in, but I thought I enquire and
> see if anyone can through some ideas about, next time she visits me I'll
> have a chat with her...I thik she should at least fiel soem kind of
> complaint I was gobsmacked when I heard how much she had paid him !
>
> many thanks
>
> Halima
International, across national borders, follow up's to such a
situation would be difficult, i don't know what sort of laws there are
in the UK about it but in America since the early 1980's the laws that
would have been used to have made selling a "spell" or even "telling
fortunes" illegal has been struck down in the name of "free speech"
constitutionally protected "free speech".
This does not rule out prosecution for our right fraud which is what
it sounds like your friend fell for.
I would urge her to notify the frauds local authorities about him.
Various types of religious and/or spiritual ceremonies, rites,
blessings, rituals, surgical procedures, & etc. have been charged for
by the churches offering them. Not only are one commanded in the
Judeo Christian context to "tithe" but even Kosher butchers charge for
their ritually blessed & slaughtered meats. All of which are legal
and usualy tax exempt.
Why should a neo pagan, wiccan, new ager, hoodooeste, rootworker,
conjurdoc., brujho, shaman etc. not be allowed the same freedom to
offer its services for sale?
For centuries the church state relationship was symbiotic, hand in
glove, and even in those places where such magick rituals as provided
by local shamans are part of a much older tradition that was never
outlawed, even they have corrupt practitioners.
Plus there are many ways of defining what a spell is.
My general rule is that the more expensive a spell (or other
magico-religous ritual) is the less likely i am to appreciate it.
I think one of the telling factors in authenticity of intent and
purpose on the part of the spell caster is its willingness to have the
client actually do the spell. "Give a man a fish and he eats for a
day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself" and don't have to
go looking for a wizard to cast a spell for him evertime he gets
hungry:)
Unfortunately this quickly gets into taboos, as many if not most
people who want spell also do not want to have anything to do with
them, they are titillating themselves with superstitious fascination
with the forbidden and the dark arts and better, in their case they
ARE hung for a lamb instead of a sheep:)
The person that can do anonymous spell work for clients wont advertise
or seek out such clients, and those that do advertise or other wise
seek out clients, publicly advertise cant do the spell the way most
people would want them to and in the way they probly promise they can.
I would not trust a plumber (or anyone else) that guareenteed 100%
satisfaction, why hold the local wizard to an lesser standard?
They can perform a ritual, they can acquire tools and ingredients and
perform all sorts of actions with them because you have paid them to,
some of those making the most money off this sort of gullibility have
the decency to at least have fine print ..... which reads "for
entertainment purposes only" .... most of the frauds don't even bother
with fine print.
I believe i can do 'spells" in several ways, but i cant do them just
because a stranger wants me to.
At least not in a way i could in good consciousness claim to have an
effect, however vicariously, for them. I believe i can teach them how
to perform such spells for themselves in such a way as to have an
effect based on and in their feelings for the situation they want the
spell about, but they must provide the energy & enthusiasm for the
spell i am unable to work up on their behalf.
And even those people who might be interested in the theory and any
lesson plan are usually not really interested in the actual
disciplines involved in 'spell work'.
And there are forms of spontaneous magic and accidental perfection's,
but again, while they can be taught to be recognized, it requires the
doing of it. A commitment to the process, which can take lifetimes:)
One thing is inevitably connected to another and before long your
talking about a whole system of life and living and all the poor
client wanted was a return of a lost love:)
One common hook of the fake shaman is an inexpensive diagnosis, often
time with a very cheap "reading" that finds an expensive problem.
The minute a 5 dollar palm or tarot card reading turns into a thousand
dollar profit ..er..problem, that's when you get up and leave.
The people that do that will not only take your money and give you
nothing but pain and shame in return they are also a type of person
that will involve you as deeply as you will let yourself be involved,
they are not nice people and while they usually kill the goose that
laid the golden egg by ever increasing demands for more and more
money, they are not above using a person for other nefarious schemes
they are also running.
Sometimes to keep a person quite they will let them in on the schemes
to bilk other poor suckers, and some people cant resist the temptation
to get even further involved in such a vicious cycle.
And don't think it is just limited to alternative religion, & new age
fraud's it was the same phenomena that prompted Martin Luther and the
entire Protestant revolution. At one time one could by oneself into
heaven along with ones dead relatives, purchase sainthood and buy the
anathema's of bell, book and candle by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic
Church.
Once can still buy a Mass or hire a moyel to perform the brise:)
--
Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky/files/sf_anthem.mp3
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